Can dryfasting permanently reverse severe mental illnesses?

[Titan]

I'm sure you know that the ketogenic diet is all the rage right now, as a metabolic therapy for otherwise treatment resistant mental illnesses like bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD etc.

We know according to Ray Peat and the people who won back their health with his advice, that long term low carb can damage many peoples metabolism.

But these poor souls, if they have even small amounts of carbohydrates and stop ketosis, their symptoms come right back.
I fear for them, and what might happen 10-20 years from now if all of them only rely on ketones to stay sane.

I know it's a very big question, that needs more proper research, but I'm curious what your opinion is on using dry fasting for these horrible diseases.
Is there anyone who have managed to reverse them, and then become able to tolerate carbs again without symptoms recurring?

[Yannick]

I'm sure you know that the ketogenic diet is all the rage right now, as a metabolic therapy for otherwise treatment resistant mental illnesses like bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD etc.

We know according to Ray Peat and the people who won back their health with his advice, that long term low carb can damage many peoples metabolism.

But these poor souls, if they have even small amounts of carbohydrates and stop ketosis, their symptoms come right back.
I fear for them, and what might happen 10-20 years from now if all of them only rely on ketones to stay sane.

I know it's a very big question, that needs more proper research, but I'm curious what your opinion is on using dry fasting for these horrible diseases.
Is there anyone who have managed to reverse them, and then become able to tolerate carbs again without symptoms recurring?

A Video on the topic of reversing severe mental illness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeUsnEmuj3U

Yes, they can use dry fasting as a springboard to jump into the other direction. The intense ketosis on day 4-5 of the dry fast gives you a running start to jumping into carbs as the body's glycogen is completely depleted and the cortisol will still take many days to get back to baseline.

there's a reason evidence is mounting that neurological diseases and even cancer are all disorders of brain and body bioenergetics.

Bioenergetics = energy creation : and the fastest and priority source is glucose.

-type 3 diabetes, have you heard of it? Alzheimers. Yes original amyloid plaque theory proven false, and now it's most likely a related to glucose hypometabolism which slows down glial support and the systems of clean up.

why do old people rush to sweets? their body is screaming for sugar even though they cant handle it well. and then no wonder they get so many neurological issues so quickly. pounding sugar into a brain who's glucose system is all gunked up will lead to a ton of problems.

sometimes misfolded proteins are stuck in the brain and nervous system and need deep cleanning you can only get from dry fasting.

synaptogenesis, neurogenesis, all part of bioenergetics

I don't think dry fasting itself can reverse severe mental illnesses, because i believe most of them all correlate to insulin resistance / glucose metabolism dysfunction. So yes, sometimes it'll give you a form of cortisone steroid shot that will give you high cortisol levels for a few weeks or months, where you feel totally healed, but then it will come back because the root cause was only temporarily suppressed. Although sometimes you can't fix the problem without the intense neuronal autophagy and neurogenesis that dry fasting provides. It's a combo, you need all these steps together to make sure to fully tackle the root cause.

Then, when they have reset the body and restarted with an understanding about glucose oxidation and carb metabolism, they have the miraculous T3 tool to help tie it all in together. The scorch protocol is a sort of coalescence of these concepts, all coming together into one coherent solution to give people back their old health. low-carb: dry fast: HCLF refeed: T3 Therapy: bioenergetics diet: (if still needs a little more push we explore a few different therapies with a mix-match to the symptoms)

[Titan]

I have got to say I admire your intellectual capacity, seeing how you blend together what's useful from both dryfasting, Peat bioenergetics and the carnivore ketogenic areas.

It's really hard to wrap my head around all of it, but I feel like you are on to something fantastic.

[Ümit]

Sorry, I am in my refeed and habe limited mental energy to give an elaborate reply.
To keep it brief: Yes, D.F. can fix serious mental illnesses.
There are Psychiatric clinics in Europe giving all of their new patients 4 days of water fasting. ALL patients. 60% of symptoms dissapear (on average). Only symptoms remaining after 4 days of WF are treated in the psychiatric clinic.

Some clinics treat psychiatric problems with 1 or 2 weeks of very low calory diet, also resulting in significant improvements. Google for research papers.

Often ignored:
Demonic posession can cause this as well. Not a topic I have the energy to discuss. But I can prove it. (Had to learn islamic exorcism myself)

[junie]

Umit, could you clarify? You cite EU clinics using WF but seem to extrapolate from that that DF works for this and also seem to extrapolate that the clinics' activity is working. Clinics where I live do things all day that don't work, so I just want to make sure I understand what you are trying to say.

fwiw I did see someone who posted a few years ago on a DF feed who said one DF (I think it was longer, 5-9 days?) cleared their BD. They also updated it a couple years later to say it was still gone. As a person with adrenal disorderliness myself who suspects BD is a different name for something similar, albeit much harder mentally to deal with than my physical issues, I find it hard to get my head around the idea that someone could clear that much biochaos in one go, but that person may have been a lot stronger consttuionally biologically than I am and not have severe other illnesses.

[Yannick]

Was just quickly scanning here and noticed I forgot to mention an important point about the mental illness and dry fasting not being enough. I have to explain why carnivore/keto/fasting can help improve the symptoms so much. It clears a lot of possible blockages and pathogens, but if energy (oxidative phosphorylation) is the golden trophy we need, then why do they feel fine without improving proper glucose energy creation? 1. youre stuck in high adrenaline cortisol which is temporarily giving enough energy through stress chemicals to sustain energy requirements or 2. They have lowered their metabolism (and therefore overall body energy systems) - if your headaches have healed or even mental issues then it's possible your brain energy maintenance levels were lowered let's say from 90% to 60%. You now think slower, but your body energy production matches it and you dont have pain or mental issues but at the cost of thinking as quickly etc. Of course, some people will do this trade any day. bipolar schizo life destroying illness, or slightly slowed down brain processing, but happy and normal life otherwise?

[meow]

In my experience, this is indeed the case, i think.
Thoughts do slow down, so it's easier for you to control them.
I was diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder quite a long time ago. I didnt have very vivid symptoms, but sometimes it caused significant inconvenience, such as hallucinations or the need for some time to shut up my inner monologue. but after switching to keto, its completely gone.
And damn, after trying to reintroduce fast carbs, the next morning i started to notice how it was getting harder for me to control my thoughts. even though it wasnt too much and Im obviously still running on fat for the most part.
5 extended dry fasts (2.5-3 days), a large number of shorter dry fasts(22hrs) and even larger number of wet fasts(4 days) did not seem to help much.

[Yannick]

In my experience, this is indeed the case, i think.
Thoughts do slow down, so it's easier for you to control them.
I was diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder quite a long time ago. I didnt have very vivid symptoms, but sometimes it caused significant inconvenience, such as hallucinations or the need for some time to shut up my inner monologue. but after switching to keto, its completely gone.
And damn, after trying to reintroduce fast carbs, the next morning i started to notice how it was getting harder for me to control my thoughts. even though it wasnt too much and Im obviously still running on fat for the most part.
5 extended dry fasts (2.5-3 days), a large number of shorter dry fasts(22hrs) and even larger number of wet fasts(4 days) did not seem to help much.

wow very interesting. please keep us updated. Have you tried T3 therapy mentioned in Scorch? T3 is also linked to happiness. There used to be a big movement that connected low T3 levels to anger, maybe depression. (something also common on carnivore diets in a subset of ppl) that mvoement went away when they essentially banned T3/NDT therapy because they wanted to push T4 synthroid/levothyroxine.

[meow]

Well, after 4 days of gradually replacing fat with carbohydrates and introducing fruits, everything seems to be going quite well. I had some panic one night and a feeling of static objects moving, but it didnt happen again and I dont see any prerequisites.
To be honest, it seems to me that a healthy microbiome is very critical in such cases.
Remembering the time of my problems with candida, it was very bad in terms of worsening symptoms, especially hallucinations. every night and evening was a nightmare for me for about a month.
As well as absence of negative attitudes. I mean, bad mood causes body to make crap, making mood even worse.

Have you tried T3 therapy mentioned in Scorch?

No, I havent dived deep into the topic yet, but it looks quite tempting. I suppose its possible if I will mess around enough.
So far I do not see any safe ways to obtain medicines (even sodium lyothyronine, because there is no production in my country, and official imports have been discontinued. afaik, only T4 is currently being imported in a workround way).
It also seems that everything is not bad with my thyroid gland, so Im not sure how logical it would be to take risks with potentially substandard medicines (after official imports were stopped, cases of counterfeit medicines increased dramatically) in such a situation. Anyway, more research is needed.

T3 is also linked to happiness. There used to be a big movement that connected low T3 levels to anger, maybe depression. (something also common on carnivore diets in a subset of ppl)

Yes, it was definitely a big problem when I started keto.
Constant depressive moods and apathy.
What served as a gamechanger were large doses of d3, from 50k ui in the summer (when I spent most of the day in the sun) to 400k ui in December and still (despite the fact that I wear T-shirts in sunny weather all winter).
Was increasing dose as activity of the sun and length of the day decreased and my apathy/permanent restlessness were increasing.
Feel better now than Ive probably ever felt before. even before keto, I always got sadder by winter.

[Yannick]

Well, after 4 days of gradually replacing fat with carbohydrates and introducing fruits, everything seems to be going quite well. I had some panic one night and a feeling of static objects moving, but it didnt happen again and I dont see any prerequisites.
To be honest, it seems to me that a healthy microbiome is very critical in such cases.
Remembering the time of my problems with candida, it was very bad in terms of worsening symptoms, especially hallucinations. every night and evening was a nightmare for me for about a month.
As well as absence of negative attitudes. I mean, bad mood causes body to make crap, making mood even worse.

Have you tried T3 therapy mentioned in Scorch?

No, I havent dived deep into the topic yet, but it looks quite tempting. I suppose its possible if I will mess around enough.
So far I do not see any safe ways to obtain medicines (even sodium lyothyronine, because there is no production in my country, and official imports have been discontinued. afaik, only T4 is currently being imported in a workround way).
It also seems that everything is not bad with my thyroid gland, so Im not sure how logical it would be to take risks with potentially substandard medicines (after official imports were stopped, cases of counterfeit medicines increased dramatically) in such a situation. Anyway, more research is needed.

T3 is also linked to happiness. There used to be a big movement that connected low T3 levels to anger, maybe depression. (something also common on carnivore diets in a subset of ppl)

Yes, it was definitely a big problem when I started keto.
Constant depressive moods and apathy.
What served as a gamechanger were large doses of d3, from 50k ui in the summer (when I spent most of the day in the sun) to 400k ui in December and still (despite the fact that I wear T-shirts in sunny weather all winter).
Was increasing dose as activity of the sun and length of the day decreased and my apathy/permanent restlessness were increasing.
Feel better now than Ive probably ever felt before. even before keto, I always got sadder by winter.

chronic-illness.ca is vetted by me and has been used successfully in many people. If you have any questions email them directly, they save lives.

The point with mental illness and chronic illness - often thyroid panel comes back fine. the problem is tissue level resistance to t3 from chronic stress/ fatty acids, dysfunctional metabolism, genetics, or all together in a perfect storm. read this part: https://scorchprotocol.com/t3-therapy.html